User talk:Iktinos - Revision history

WinterRose: /* WinterRose concludes: */

2013-12-04T08:37:10Z

WinterRose concludes:

WinterRose at 21:48, 3 December 2013

2013-12-03T21:48:39Z

Iktinos: /* WinterRose: Asks about the fact that Lords and 999 Heroes cannot enter much of the area */

2013-12-03T18:45:10Z

WinterRose: Asks about the fact that Lords and 999 Heroes cannot enter much of the area

WinterRose at 19:09, 2 December 2013

2013-12-02T19:09:22Z

WinterRose at 19:08, 2 December 2013

2013-12-02T19:08:37Z

Iktinos: reply to WinterRose.

2013-12-02T15:55:47Z

reply to WinterRose.

WinterRose at 14:20, 29 November 2013

2013-11-29T14:20:04Z

Iktinos: Created page with 'Feel free to leave me messages here! I should respond fairly swiftly. ----'

2010-10-10T01:02:09Z

Created page with 'Feel free to leave me messages here! I should respond fairly swiftly. ----'

New page

Feel free to leave me messages here! I should respond fairly swiftly.
----

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:37, 4 December 2013
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	======WinterRose concludes:======		======WinterRose concludes:======

−	:::: ~~Unfortunate as it may be~~, ~~I have pondered the fact that my friends and I cannot enter your area with the alts we worked so hard to make - characters that have been deliberately left as heroes~~. If you ask why would anyone park at 999, I could fill you a treatise on the numerous reasons, and the fact that people do it implies that there is obviously a reasoning behind it. I do not have a 501, 669, 997 or whatever '''other''' arbitrary level would in this particular case suit exploration better, nor do I have much desire to make such a character.	+	:::: Ok, thanx. -- [[User:WinterRose\|WinterRose]] 16:48, 3 December 2013 (EST)
−
−	:::: I have indeed considered the value of locking "our best" out of your area, which I will admit is your prerogative, and have briefly considered taking some of my other alts to Arx Nivea, one of my many lowheroes for example, but decided against it on a matter of principle. In fact, I have pondered this question for a year now (Is that sufficient? Am I supposed to ponder for a decade?); there isn't a time when Arx Nivea is mentioned that the eternal question "why?" doesn't enter my mind.
−
−	:::: Thus, in the last year I have at least three separate times tried to get a clear and concise answer why is it that you consider 999s to be lords, as you have clearly stated to me twice so far. It's not that I could not agree with your reasoning, I could not even comprehend it, insomuch your Zen story above may well indeed apply. It made no sense - expecting a hero to morph because a login message said so? Refusing to acknowledge that there is nothing 999s and lords have in common? It still makes no sense.
−
−	:::: So here I am, having filed yet another plea with at least six points describing why I, among other people, do not understand in-game or out-of game why a 999 hero would be different from any other superhero. My points touch game design, quest design, player participation and culture, and again, as unfortunately as it may be, no answer is forthcoming, no matter how often I ask, nor how I rephrase the question. What '''is''' forthcoming is a cute Zen story and an incredibly polite "''don't forget to close the door on your way out''" reply. My apologies, if my reasoning was not impersonal or neutral, well, a year of frustration in attempting to get a clear answer to an incredibly simple question can do that - however I consider my reasoning above to be quite on the level.
−
−	:::: I do not believe my questions were unclear in any way, reasoning is up there and if you believed otherwise you could have dismantled my logic with your arguments, or at least share your views on the topic. Thus, whatever arcane logic was applied behind Arx Nivea's entry logic is obviously not meant for me to comprehend. I only wish someone other - someone who "got it" - could have explained to me where are my logical fallacies, but eh, noone knows nor understands and even those familiar with the issue simply do not care. Others have given up having never even bothered to even pose the question.
−
−	~~:::: It would please me greatly if you could finally express your reason why 999s and lords would be considered the same. Thank you.~~
−
−	~~::::~~ -- [[User:WinterRose\|WinterRose]] 16:48, 3 December 2013 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:48, 3 December 2013
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	:::--[[User:Iktinos\|Iktinos]] 13:45, 3 December 2013 (EST)		:::--[[User:Iktinos\|Iktinos]] 13:45, 3 December 2013 (EST)
		+
		+	======WinterRose concludes:======
		+
		+	:::: Unfortunate as it may be, I have pondered the fact that my friends and I cannot enter your area with the alts we worked so hard to make - characters that have been deliberately left as heroes. If you ask why would anyone park at 999, I could fill you a treatise on the numerous reasons, and the fact that people do it implies that there is obviously a reasoning behind it. I do not have a 501, 669, 997 or whatever '''other''' arbitrary level would in this particular case suit exploration better, nor do I have much desire to make such a character.
		+
		+	:::: I have indeed considered the value of locking "our best" out of your area, which I will admit is your prerogative, and have briefly considered taking some of my other alts to Arx Nivea, one of my many lowheroes for example, but decided against it on a matter of principle. In fact, I have pondered this question for a year now (Is that sufficient? Am I supposed to ponder for a decade?); there isn't a time when Arx Nivea is mentioned that the eternal question "why?" doesn't enter my mind.
		+
		+	:::: Thus, in the last year I have at least three separate times tried to get a clear and concise answer why is it that you consider 999s to be lords, as you have clearly stated to me twice so far. It's not that I could not agree with your reasoning, I could not even comprehend it, insomuch your Zen story above may well indeed apply. It made no sense - expecting a hero to morph because a login message said so? Refusing to acknowledge that there is nothing 999s and lords have in common? It still makes no sense.
		+
		+	:::: So here I am, having filed yet another plea with at least six points describing why I, among other people, do not understand in-game or out-of game why a 999 hero would be different from any other superhero. My points touch game design, quest design, player participation and culture, and again, as unfortunately as it may be, no answer is forthcoming, no matter how often I ask, nor how I rephrase the question. What '''is''' forthcoming is a cute Zen story and an incredibly polite "''don't forget to close the door on your way out''" reply. My apologies, if my reasoning was not impersonal or neutral, well, a year of frustration in attempting to get a clear answer to an incredibly simple question can do that - however I consider my reasoning above to be quite on the level.
		+
		+	:::: I do not believe my questions were unclear in any way, reasoning is up there and if you believed otherwise you could have dismantled my logic with your arguments, or at least share your views on the topic. Thus, whatever arcane logic was applied behind Arx Nivea's entry logic is obviously not meant for me to comprehend. I only wish someone other - someone who "got it" - could have explained to me where are my logical fallacies, but eh, noone knows nor understands and even those familiar with the issue simply do not care. Others have given up having never even bothered to even pose the question.
		+
		+	:::: It would please me greatly if you could finally express your reason why 999s and lords would be considered the same. Thank you.
		+
		+	:::: -- [[User:WinterRose\|WinterRose]] 16:48, 3 December 2013 (EST)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ====WinterRose: Asks about the fact that Lords and 999 Heroes cannot enter much of the area====
 I'd like to take this opportunity to once again make a case for the 999 heroes in Nivea.
 # A 999 hero has the disadvantage over 998 hero since all +X lvl insignias drop automatically at 999.
@@ Line 18: / Line 20: @@
 Thank you,
 -- [[User:WinterRose|WinterRose]] 09:20, 29 November 2013 (EST)
 :It is part of the theme of Arx Nivea that it has magical defences.
 :Thanks to them, lords and the top 2% of all superheroes get access to a specially written section which explains much about Arx Nivea that lower level characters are unable to access.
 :--[[User:Iktinos|Iktinos]] 10:55, 2 December 2013 (EST)
 :: I can understand that the magical protections prevent lords from entering, being sensitive to "shadow" mechanism and whatever in-game explanation that brings, but putting 999s in a different category than 998s can have no in-game explanation that would bear any sense for the reasons I explained in my post above.
@@ Line 28: / Line 34: @@
 :: I am in no position other than to yet again plead for putting 999 '''heroes''' into hero category and leaving the other section of Arx to lords where it makes sense for the settlement to protect itself, and out-of-game, for the builder to present another picture to the curious lords.
 :: -- [[User:WinterRose|WinterRose]] 14:08, 2 December 2013 (EST)

@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 :: I can understand that the magical protections prevent lords from entering, being sensitive to "shadow" mechanism and whatever in-game explanation that brings, but putting 999s in a different category than 998s can have no in-game explanation that would bear any sense for the reasons I explained in my post above.
-:: I will take yet another opportunity to point out that disallowing 999s from entering the area does more that simply make a selection over which character enters and which does not - you have inadvertently made a selection against which player enters and which doesn't. :: Imagine what would happen if for some inexplicable reasons in-game hosted heroquests were proclaimed not runnable by 999s (UD for example, because, hey, why didn't they morph yet?). I'm sure the backlash would be very significant, which hasn't here occurred because a) this is Eragora, and b) it's simply one area of many, so people can continue to boycot it in silence.
+:: I will take yet another opportunity to point out that disallowing 999s from entering the area does more that simply make a selection over which character enters and which does not - you have inadvertently made a selection against which player enters and which doesn't.
 :: I am in no position other than to yet again plead for putting 999 '''heroes''' into hero category and leaving the other section of Arx to lords where it makes sense for the settlement to protect itself, and out-of-game, for the builder to present another picture to the curious lords.
 :: -- [[User:WinterRose|WinterRose]] 14:08, 2 December 2013 (EST)

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 -- [[User:WinterRose|WinterRose]] 09:20, 29 November 2013 (EST)
-:::It is part of the theme of Arx Nivea that it has magical defences.
+:It is part of the theme of Arx Nivea that it has magical defences.
-:::Thanks to them, lords and the top 2% of all superheroes get access to a specially written section which explains much about Arx Nivea that lower level characters are unable to access.
+:Thanks to them, lords and the top 2% of all superheroes get access to a specially written section which explains much about Arx Nivea that lower level characters are unable to access.
-:::--[[User:Iktinos|Iktinos]] 10:55, 2 December 2013 (EST)
+:: I can understand that the magical protections prevent lords from entering, being sensitive to "shadow" mechanism and whatever in-game explanation that brings, but putting 999s in a different category than 998s can have no in-game explanation that would bear any sense for the reasons I explained in my post above.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:20, 29 November 2013
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	Feel free to leave me messages here! I should respond fairly swiftly.		Feel free to leave me messages here! I should respond fairly swiftly.
	----		----
		+
		+	I'd like to take this opportunity to once again make a case for the 999 heroes in Nivea.
		+	# A 999 hero has the disadvantage over 998 hero since all +X lvl insignias drop automatically at 999.
		+	# A 999 hero is a badge of honor, it's not a lord shadow that one can get by morphing at 300, as it has to be run and a significant amount of effort is poured into creating it.
		+	# A 999 hero is not a dead-end - it still gains stats (ever so slowly) via killcount rollovers and isn't as frozen as a lord's shadow.
		+	# A 999 hero is no more powerful than a 998 one. Parking a hero at 998 so that it can continue to have access to a specific area should not be expected of anyone.
		+	# Forbidding a 999 hero access to area proper can be viewed as a slap to something that players view as a great matter of pride, especially if the 999 is in fact a very difficult character to level, like a dragon or an ent.
		+	# Leaving a character at 999 is done '''because''' hero is a hero, and not a lord; treating it as a lord is like saying that level 50 character should be viewed 'as a hero' because it can carry lvl 51 gear - but 999s cannot wear lord gear, do not get lord insignias, and are not as powerful as shadows in their T1 lord sets that do not even require self-spells of Eragora. A shadowed bladedancer, for example, can veil at Midgaardia - can a 999 do it as well?
		+
		+	I see absolutely no reason to forbid any hero from entering Arx Nivea. If the goal of an area is to keep ''powerful'' characters out, then draw the line at 250 or any other arbitrary point, but excluding that which represents the pride and achievement is not something I personally can support.
		+
		+	Eragora is, and has always been, a superhero continent. Please, once again, reconsider leaving Arx Nivea open to all superheroes (and not just those "wise enough" to park at 997) and keep the lords out as you please.
		+
		+	Thank you,
		+	-- [[User:WinterRose\|WinterRose]] 09:20, 29 November 2013 (EST)